A friend of mine called me today asking about media hosting on the web–a subject with which I have had absolutely no experience. Essentially, he has a high-quality audio recording of a sermon that he’d like to distribute on the web on a weekly basis. Obviously, this is something you see a lot of on the web, but I’ve never really looked into the mechanics.
We talked for a bit to discuss what we did know, like what sorts of applications he was using to edit the audio and what bitrates would be most appropriate for encoding. Once we got into the logistics of distribution, though, the details get hazy.
Delivery methods was a topic of discussion as we debated the merits of streaming media versus MP3 download. As far as we knew, streaming the media versus downloading the media should be about equal in bandwidth cost. In the one case, you’re pushing bits across the wire at a moderate pace to accomodate the listener, in the other, you’re pushing bits across the wire as quickly as possible–in both cases, though, you’re pushing the same bits across the wire, right? However, if a listener wants to listen to the same content again, streaming requires they use the same bandwidth over again (which probably means we should charge them again), whereas a download lets the listener listen locally and save us the bandwidth.
Control over content, though, seemed to be the biggest issue when it comes to the streaming vs. download debate. With streaming, redistribution is not an option, unless the user goes to a lot of trouble to capture an analog version. With download, though, the media is freely redistributable. I think with these sermons we’ll want people to share them with others, in which case downloads seem to be the better choice because people can use their own bandwidth to do that (posting on web sites, P2P, email, etc.).
Payment models are another tricky issue. We talked about the “walled garden” approach to hosting where the user can see what is available for download, but can’t get to the content until he or she was authenticated with an ID and password or a credit card. Essentially, since this is a non-profit, we just want to cover the costs for bandwidth used–something along the lines of 99¢ per download, maybe less. We also talked about the option of a subscription-based model where the user pays a one-time fee of $10 with free access to everything.
We also struggled over the question of a home-brew solution vs. a professional service. Home-brew solutions (buying our own server, configuring it, administering it, etc.) tend to be cheaper, but cost a lot of time, where as professional services tend to be more expensive, but come with specialized support. My inclination is to go with a service, because the headaches of administering a server can be many, especially when one considers securing the site. Incidentally, this is why I’m using a professional web hosting company for hosting my blog–I can just tell them when something breaks, and they fix it.
I would really appreciate feedback from anyone who has an opinion about any of this stuff–real world narratives of your own experiences are welcome. Discussion on media formats (such as RealMedia or Windows Media) are also encouraged. Thanks!
h4. Update
The feedback on this has been very helpful, thank you. I’ve done some surfing to determine what’s already being done out there in terms of media hosting by other similar organizations. The results can be found in this table. RealMedia Streams are the most popular on my informal survey, but MP3 Downloads are a close second. Also noteworthy is the fact that big media formats are really driven by third-party hosting (such as OneSource) where as the organizations that seem to manage their own content (InterVarsity, Truth for Life, Ligonier) are more partial to MP3.

Pushing digital content is something that the library I work at is interested in, has been messing with for some time, and plans on expanding in the future.
I really don’t like our solution, though, it does work. We use the Cisco IP/TV system, which can distribute content in windows media player, quick time, or its own format (with a freely available plugin).
Which format you go with, depends on what your target audience is. Windows Media Player version 9, is windows only. Quicktime is windows/mac. Real player is windows, mac, unix but has tons of ad ware and other bothersome things.
If you go the streaming route, I would prolly stream it and let people connect with winamp, xmms, zinf, etc … Its very cross platform (even beos people could listen ;-)), and it uses tools that most people already have and are very familar with using.
If you offer downloads, I would go with a 192k mp3. I greatly prefer Ogg Vorbis over MP3, but MP3 is the defacto standard. So, unless you wanted to put the open Ogg over MP3, mp3 is prolly the better choice. 192k VBR mp3 is a high enough quality that most people would be very happy with. (if you went ogg vorbis, you could even drop it to 128 for about the same quality and save on bandwidth costs)
How important is content control? is the content actually going to change?
As a consumer, I would rather have the straight download. I may want to go back and review something, etc … and being that this is non-profit asking people to pay again might be iffy. But, you need to cover costs. Downloading also offers the benefit of being able to throw it on a portable player and listening on the go.
99cents a download seems fair. it’ll nickel and dime ya to death if you let it. but, its a good price for a audio clip.
Altp.
I will add to altp’s comment.
At my church we are streaming Sunday am & pm services. A low bandwidth audio only, and a high bandwidth video&audio stream. The services are also archived and available on demand. The person over the project decided to go with RealMedia. I personally wouldn’t recommend Real, but I will save that for another day.
Before you go any further, how large is your expected audience?
Before you can decide on hosting you need to know how much bandwidth you will use, and if there will be peak times.
e.g. We stream our live feed thru a service provider. We use their massive pipe during the live services, since the church T1 couldn’t handle it. We use the T1 for streaming archived services since they will be accessed sporadiclly.
I highly recommend mp3 for streaming and for solid downloads. I honestly see no reason to use anything other than mp3 and its child/brother projects (e.g. ogg) for audio. Name one fault/drawback of mp3 streaming!
Open, standard, easily accessible, heavily used ( http://www.shoutcast.com ) and I could listen to the sermon from my linux or bsd console. Okay, I guess the console thing might not make the list.
Yeah you read that right, the church has a T1.
my 2cents
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sean
Guys, I appreciate the conversation.
Mike, I hadn’t considered the cross-platform accessibility issues–thank you for pointing them out. MP3 would, in this case, seem to be the most accessible technology because anyone with any sort of player on any platform could listen–including Windows Media, RealPlayer, or QuickTime. Sean pointed out Shoutcast–does MP3 streaming require special hard/software, or do I have a choice of platforms here?
As far as encoding quality, we’ll probably be doing 32Kbps. This is voice-only (with some short bumper music, perhaps), so we only need the mid-range frequencies to sound good. 32Kbps sounds pretty good, for example, in this broadcast: http://www.theooze.com/msoc/audio/Spencer_Burke.mp3
I’m having a hard time trying to determine how or why content control is important. Thinking like a content provider, don’t want people ripping off my stuff and claiming that it’s theirs. On the other hand, thinking like a church, I want people to be able to share freely because the content is more important than my ability to be attributed for it. That really comes down to a decision by the elders (people who run the church) as to what they want to do, but having clear-cut thoughts about the topic helps.
I’m guessing at the 99¢ number. A subscription per year sounds like a much more predictable way to manage costs than a per-download model. On the other hand, though, there may be the person that just wants only one sermon and that’s it, and, well, 99¢ seems to be work pretty well for Apple: http://www.applemusic.com
Sean, thanks for bringing up the high/low bandwidth question. In our conversations, the only benefit of Real streaming vs. MP3 download is that streaming downsizes dynamically for, say, a 56KBps modem. Can MP3 streaming do that, too?
Expected audience: not more than 100 users at this point. Though scalability is an important, forward-thinking question. You figure that, for starters, ~5MB downloads per 100 users, ~4.5 times a month. That’s just over two Gig per month: http://www.google.com/search?q=4.5+*+100+*+5%20MB Right now, I personally have about 2GB/month transfer for ~$100 a year, but that doesn’t include any sort of streaming (that I know of), and it definitely doesn’t include secure logins.
By the way, Sean, I think you’re the only person I’ve heard of that uses the command line for listening to music–that’s pretty hardcore.
###By the way, Sean, I think you’re the only person I’ve heard of that uses the command line for listening to music—that’s pretty hardcore.###
heh, well I got used to it. Over the last few months I have forced myself to use the console. To start my playlist I just ‘cplay /stuff/audio/’. I actually find it much easier to navigate and less distracting than a GUI. And I am not (yet) an expert console user, just in training.
Before you research anymore, make sure you research ondemand streaming. It works differently (though not much different) than live (radio) streaming.
###does MP3 streaming require special hard/software, or do I have a choice of platforms here?###
There are dozens of mp3 streamer packages, and a handful for every platform (unix/win32/etc).
mod_mp3 http://media.tangent.org/ supports ondemand streaming, so do shoutcast and icecast (and probably any other *cast).
With a streaming server, the server pushes it out. That requires some service to be running, therefore you will probably need a specialized host.
The other option with mp3’s is just to use an m3u file. Try this out:
* Upload some mp3 to your site.
* Create a new plaintext file with the url to that mp3 as the only text.
* save that file on your site with the m3u extension.
Then go to the m3u url via your browser, and I bet your mp3 player will magically open and start playing the mp3. With this route the client is doing the streaming, and 99% (or more) of decoders will work with it. Also that means for each new sermon you only need those 2 files. Just link directly to the mp3 for them to download, and m3u to stream. Now since the m3u is just a plaintext stream playlist (you can even include multiple files in it), your level of content control is very low.
If after researching you find that the latter option works great, then the only hardware you need is the equipment to get his sermon onto the computer. And of course a hosting service, but you won’t need any special streaming services.
This is going to be a long comments log. 0245am, time to sleep.
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I actually find it much easier to navigate and less distracting than a GUI. And I am not (yet) an expert console user, just in training.
–
I”ve actually found that a combination of the 2, console+gui seems to be optimal.
I use xmms to play my music. To control xmms i use the terminal app xmmsctrl, and the plugin xmmsfind_remote.
xmmsctrl allows me to control ust about all the xmms functions from a terminal, which i have mapped to keybindings in my window manager. Xmmsfind_remote allows you to quickly search youe playlist. so i can hit ctrl+alt+j to bring up the fund window and then type “voo chi” and voodoo chile” is displayed. hit enter and it plays.
that way, no matter where i am, which virtual desktop i am on, or even which computer in the house i am on (ssh into my desktop), i can have complete control over my music (i just adjusted the volume of my music without loosing focus on this textarea field … i love it ;-)).
ANYway. back on topic.
I also remembered the helix project https://helix-server.helixcommunity.org/ this morning.
Bandwidth is very expensive, if you are trying to get your own pipe to your house or something. Last time i checked, around here, it was 1000$ a month for a T1 to a residence from a high-quality provider. Choosing a dedicated solution from someone that already has the bandwidth in place will save you a lot of money. As you prolly already know, i am a huge fan of rackspace
Chances are, you get everything that you will want, plus the expandability, you will want a dedicated or shared solution, where you have some shell access to the box.
Altp.
Why streaming? Why not a download after the fact? Just put up a 32kbs file via bit torrent. Don’t charge anything to download it. Have a donation box.
Bit torrent spreads the bandwidth costs to the downloader, greatly cutting yours down to the point that they may just be managable, or within default hosting costs.
FYI. Helix is intertwined with RealNetworks, but it can also stream MP3. I would test and see if the .m3u route will work for you. If a users mp3 client (decoder) can’t stream .m3u, then it probably can’t stream a .pls sent out from a server (i.e. shoutcast, icecast, mod_mp3, helix).
If you are not satisfied with m3u then (IMO) using helix (realmedia) or wma (windows media) may be your only other choice. As much as I believe in NOT using wma, you should make the decision based on your audience. If they have windows they easily can access wma.
I agree with altp in re to hosting. No need to host yourself. The church does host archiving but only b/c we will actually save money. We may eventually move that to a hosting service also, if the demand grows.
This thread has motivated me to attempt to get our ra (real audio) archives converted to mp3 (or duplicated). It would be nice to have some sermons sitting with all my songs.
Ryan
A 32kbs sermon (depending on length) would be a very large download for a user on dialup.
Say that didn’t matter. I love bittorrent, but is there an easy way for a novice to use bittorrent (this is a sermon, not a tech feed.)? Also, bittorrent depends on seeds (other users). This will not be a highly seeded download. Unless kenn finds some nice people that want to donate their bandwidth and keep the seeds alive. I personally would if our church added that alternate route.
Sean,
True that size matters – but the audio will be downloaded one way or another – why not hit it all at once instead of streaming. Listen now, or listen later. Doesn’t really matter, imho. But then again, streaming doesn’t make it feel like downloading, so they psychology is different.
Bittorrent depends on seeds, to an extent. If it’s just 1 to 1, it would just be like a normal download from the server.. but when 2 people hit it, the load gets distributed, and so on and so forth. Thus it gets better with more people, but can work alone too – assuming the goal is to minimize server impact.
As far as setting it up… yeah, it’s not that hard. It could be reduced to just “save as mp3, run a script” – the script would create a bit torrent tracker file, put it online via scp, and update the link or what not. It would be pretty simple. The creation of a tracker file is just done via a simple app that’s included with bit torrent.
Anyway, It all depends on your goals for the project – If awesome convenience is your goal, stream away… but prepare for the bill. If server load reduction is what you want, and just general availability, go with the torrent.
K,
I’m not sure if you saw this http://audio.ciara.us/test/64test/results.html but it was posted on /. listing comparisons of 64k codecs. I know that’s a bit high for your uses. Also, (this is a question for Jai), with your rack mount server @ NAC, how much data transfer are you allowed per month?
Is it umlimited?
Darin
You’re talking bandwidth or data transfer, Scrap? Bandwidth at NAC is based on the 95th% rule or something. Basically, you pay some relatively low cost for bandwidth- something like 4$ per gigabyte per month. There’s some more math in it than that (the 95th percentile rule – “The 95th percentile is the smallest number that is greater than 95% of the numbers in a given set. 95 percentile accounting, or the “95% rule,” is an industry standard method to allocate and bill for bandwidth usage by co-located or managed servers.” http://www.rackunit.com/CGI_ROOT/hazel.cgi?action=add&item=003 ), but that’s the basics. Now, streaming media is pretty consistant I think, and would definitely make for higher bandwidth issues. Data transfer should be unlimited if you own a server, but of course, data transfer = extra bandwidth. I’m a bit fuzzy on it all myself, maybe Steve at NAC can help explain it a bit. I’m meeting with the Hartman on Wednesday
Ryan
I use bittorrent, so I do understand it. But, if my assumptions are correct, this needs to be a very simple stream/download. Click and it plays. I would like to see a nice GUI (w/ scripted backend) spread the growth of bittorrent. Maybe something similar to Gigex http://www.gigex.com/ , but better. I love my command line, but most people want the mouse for everything. Most people are lazy =)
I did quite a bit of research into this stuff a few months ago, and it’s clear that most of the “media delivery” solutions (e.g. Akamai) out there are way too expensive for churches, while you can quickly rack up ridiculous bandwidth charges if you are with a typical “shared hosting” web service that has 5 GB or less of monthly bandwidth ($10 per extra GB, etc.). Realistically for a smaller church a webhosting account with at least 10GB/month is probably fine, since ~45 min. sermons are just 10 MB at 32 kbps MP3, or 1000 downloads/month).
Bandwidth doesn’t have to be expensive, and running a server from someone’s home is REALLY not cost-effective. What would be ideal is get 10 churches together and share a $99 400 GB/month server at Serverbeach or the equivalent. The cheap box/network might not serve well for streaming, with all of the quality-of-service issues, but it would be more than adequate for concurrent 10MB downloads, at the tune of 40,000! per month. (400GB/month is equivalent to a full T1 maxed out 24/7). At $10/month/church, you might as well just give the service away for free, since credit card processing charges are 30-50 cents on a 99 cent transaction.
Another provider that you may have missed is sermonaudio.com, but I would steer clear of them because their website mixes political messages with sermons.