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	<title>Comments on: Free the Bible</title>
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	<link>http://kennsarah.net/2003/09/14/free-the-bible/</link>
	<description>The Digital Home of Ken &#38; Sarah Walker</description>
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		<title>By: Jai</title>
		<link>http://kennsarah.net/2003/09/14/free-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-663</link>
		<dc:creator>Jai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kennsarah.net/?p=714#comment-663</guid>
		<description>There are some really valid points here, Ken.  Quite an interesting read. And those Bible APIs sound rather cool. I think I&#039;d use &#039;em at some point myself to write my own custom software stuff... well, if I had a few extra weeks to do that ;) !

Interesting analogy about Luther vs. Illiteracy and Today&#039;s &quot;reformist&quot; vs. Apathy. I can totally see that, especially with the concept of &quot;realative truth&quot; running rampant. 

Hey people, if I hold an apple in front of your face and tell you it&#039;s an apple, but you tell me it&#039;s a peach- It&#039;s still an apple. Sorry, just cause you say it&#039;s a peach doesn&#039;t make it a peach. It&#039;s still an apple ---- my little whack-a-mole on &quot;relative truth&quot;.

Nice article K.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are some really valid points here, Ken.  Quite an interesting read. And those Bible APIs sound rather cool. I think I&#8217;d use &#8216;em at some point myself to write my own custom software stuff&#8230; well, if I had a few extra weeks to do that <img src='http://kennsarah.net/wp-content/plugins/smilies-themer/Nomicons v2.0/wink.png' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> !</p>
<p>Interesting analogy about Luther vs. Illiteracy and Today&#8217;s &#8220;reformist&#8221; vs. Apathy. I can totally see that, especially with the concept of &#8220;realative truth&#8221; running rampant. </p>
<p>Hey people, if I hold an apple in front of your face and tell you it&#8217;s an apple, but you tell me it&#8217;s a peach- It&#8217;s still an apple. Sorry, just cause you say it&#8217;s a peach doesn&#8217;t make it a peach. It&#8217;s still an apple &#8212;- my little whack-a-mole on &#8220;relative truth&#8221;.</p>
<p>Nice article K.</p>
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		<title>By: Russell</title>
		<link>http://kennsarah.net/2003/09/14/free-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-664</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kennsarah.net/?p=714#comment-664</guid>
		<description>Ken,

I thought that the Kirn article was illustrative also-I would counter that satire and deconstruction are sometimes what we faint of heart and faith need.  Your first sentence after the quote seems to imply that immunity from their thought-provoking effects (strength of heart) should be a prerequisite for viewing?

Also, do you really think that the average person in America has limited access to scripture?  Free Bibles are only slightly more numerous than people who are lining up to tell you what it means, there are multiple all-Jesus-all-the-time TV stations featurin good ol fashioned scripture 24-7, and despite some copyright protections anyone can read the NIV (the most profit-driven translation, ever) for free on the internet or in any hotel room.  In any case, I don&#039;t think that lack of access stymies a new counterculture movement.

Granted, living in today&#039;s media blitzkreig is like the proverbial drink from a firehose and you are preaching to the choir on its dehumanizing effects. 

Jai- apathy is truly a trend, and a regrettable one, though I can&#039;t really bring myself to care about it.

Just kidding.

Happy sleeping!
Russell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken,</p>
<p>I thought that the Kirn article was illustrative also-I would counter that satire and deconstruction are sometimes what we faint of heart and faith need.  Your first sentence after the quote seems to imply that immunity from their thought-provoking effects (strength of heart) should be a prerequisite for viewing?</p>
<p>Also, do you really think that the average person in America has limited access to scripture?  Free Bibles are only slightly more numerous than people who are lining up to tell you what it means, there are multiple all-Jesus-all-the-time TV stations featurin good ol fashioned scripture 24-7, and despite some copyright protections anyone can read the NIV (the most profit-driven translation, ever) for free on the internet or in any hotel room.  In any case, I don&#8217;t think that lack of access stymies a new counterculture movement.</p>
<p>Granted, living in today&#8217;s media blitzkreig is like the proverbial drink from a firehose and you are preaching to the choir on its dehumanizing effects. </p>
<p>Jai- apathy is truly a trend, and a regrettable one, though I can&#8217;t really bring myself to care about it.</p>
<p>Just kidding.</p>
<p>Happy sleeping!<br />
Russell</p>
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		<title>By: Pez</title>
		<link>http://kennsarah.net/2003/09/14/free-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-665</link>
		<dc:creator>Pez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kennsarah.net/?p=714#comment-665</guid>
		<description>Russell,

What do you think stymies a new counterculture movement?

Darin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Russell,</p>
<p>What do you think stymies a new counterculture movement?</p>
<p>Darin</p>
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		<title>By: Russell</title>
		<link>http://kennsarah.net/2003/09/14/free-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-666</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kennsarah.net/?p=714#comment-666</guid>
		<description>Darin,

Tough question-I don&#039;t know.  Maybe fear, apathy, cultural momentum.  I&#039;m just not convinced that tearing down IBS&#039;s usage limits will provide leverage in getting the message out.  Do you agree that the scriptures have never been more free than today?

Russ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darin,</p>
<p>Tough question-I don&#8217;t know.  Maybe fear, apathy, cultural momentum.  I&#8217;m just not convinced that tearing down IBS&#8217;s usage limits will provide leverage in getting the message out.  Do you agree that the scriptures have never been more free than today?</p>
<p>Russ</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Walker</title>
		<link>http://kennsarah.net/2003/09/14/free-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-667</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kennsarah.net/?p=714#comment-667</guid>
		<description>Russ,

re: &quot;I would counter that satire and deconstruction are sometimes what we faint of heart and faith need.&quot;

I agree, but good satire, while an effective wake-up call to the clueless, can be like a bludgeon to those of us who are sensitive to the church&#039;s broken state--that was what the warning was about.  Ultimately, of course, I think everyone who reads this blog should always read everything I post. ;-)

re: &quot;limited access to scripture&quot;

It&#039;s true that the Bible is one of the most freely available documents on the planet, let alone America.  But, I guess when I&#039;m referring to &quot;free,&quot; I&#039;m not necessarily referring to cost--rather, &quot;accessible,&quot; or &quot;open&quot; might be better terminology, because what I&#039;m really referring to is presentation.  Thus, the &quot;Christian&quot; media blitzkreig and its dehumanizing effects are more towards what I&#039;m getting at.  Walter Kirn points out effectively that the Alternaculture isn&#039;t motivated by deep, spiritual living.  With the Alternaculture, you aren&#039;t simply provided with the Scriptures, but the Scriptures + a cheesy marketing gimmick, suited towards your demographic.

It&#039;s these market-driven encumberances on the Scriptures that I&#039;m concerned about.  These underlying negotiating tactics that sound Spiritual, but are maybe a bit more about making you &quot;buy milk from a Christian cow,&quot; as Steve Taylor put it.  

That is why these first steps towards &quot;open&quot; technologies for the use and study of the Scriptures are exciting for me.  Open Source as an ideology is not driven by market forces, it&#039;s driven by the freedom of information and the sheer enjoyment that comes with writing software.  It&#039;s this economically disinterested attitude that I want to see more of in the communication of the Scriptures, such that people can take them for what they are, and not for the spin that&#039;s been applied to them.  As the Disseminary http://disseminary.org/ puts it, &quot;Wisdom wants to be free.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Russ,</p>
<p>re: &#8220;I would counter that satire and deconstruction are sometimes what we faint of heart and faith need.&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree, but good satire, while an effective wake-up call to the clueless, can be like a bludgeon to those of us who are sensitive to the church&#8217;s broken state&#8211;that was what the warning was about.  Ultimately, of course, I think everyone who reads this blog should always read everything I post. <img src='http://kennsarah.net/wp-content/plugins/smilies-themer/Nomicons v2.0/wink.png' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
re: &#8220;limited access to scripture&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s true that the Bible is one of the most freely available documents on the planet, let alone America.  But, I guess when I&#8217;m referring to &#8220;free,&#8221; I&#8217;m not necessarily referring to cost&#8211;rather, &#8220;accessible,&#8221; or &#8220;open&#8221; might be better terminology, because what I&#8217;m really referring to is presentation.  Thus, the &#8220;Christian&#8221; media blitzkreig and its dehumanizing effects are more towards what I&#8217;m getting at.  Walter Kirn points out effectively that the Alternaculture isn&#8217;t motivated by deep, spiritual living.  With the Alternaculture, you aren&#8217;t simply provided with the Scriptures, but the Scriptures + a cheesy marketing gimmick, suited towards your demographic.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s these market-driven encumberances on the Scriptures that I&#8217;m concerned about.  These underlying negotiating tactics that sound Spiritual, but are maybe a bit more about making you &#8220;buy milk from a Christian cow,&#8221; as Steve Taylor put it.  </p>
<p>That is why these first steps towards &#8220;open&#8221; technologies for the use and study of the Scriptures are exciting for me.  Open Source as an ideology is not driven by market forces, it&#8217;s driven by the freedom of information and the sheer enjoyment that comes with writing software.  It&#8217;s this economically disinterested attitude that I want to see more of in the communication of the Scriptures, such that people can take them for what they are, and not for the spin that&#8217;s been applied to them.  As the Disseminary <a href="http://disseminary.org/" rel="nofollow">http://disseminary.org/</a> puts it, &#8220;Wisdom wants to be free.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Russ</title>
		<link>http://kennsarah.net/2003/09/14/free-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-668</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kennsarah.net/?p=714#comment-668</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the reply Ken.  I agree-wisdom does want to be free and Alternaculture is often weak, but not always.  I also seek the holy grail of economic disinterest.  I would like to point out that most cows are Hindu.  Self-interest, I think.

;-)

Russ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the reply Ken.  I agree-wisdom does want to be free and Alternaculture is often weak, but not always.  I also seek the holy grail of economic disinterest.  I would like to point out that most cows are Hindu.  Self-interest, I think.<br />
 <img src='http://kennsarah.net/wp-content/plugins/smilies-themer/Nomicons v2.0/wink.png' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Russ</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Gruber</title>
		<link>http://kennsarah.net/2003/09/14/free-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-669</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Gruber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kennsarah.net/?p=714#comment-669</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Friend or Enemy<br />
A Response to Walter Kirn</p>
<p>A well known observation made in Machiavelli’s “The Prince” states that “we should keep our friends close but our enemies closer”. Although this statement has no theological basis it does capture how we as Christian believers should embrace all of God’s children. Those we consider friends or fellow believers should be kept close and those we encounter who are non-believers should be kept even closer. There should be no one whom we keep at a distance. However, from a kingdom perspective it is often difficult to differentiate between those who might be considered friend or enemy. Walter Kirn’s scathing attack on the Christian alternaculture could be viewed by many Christian believers as hurtful to the cause of Christ and therefore Kirn is to be cast as an enemy. However, not everyone who is critical of our faith and practice is necessarily our enemy. Proverbs 27: 5, 6 remind us that “Open rebuke is better than secret love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful”. Truly Kirn has openly rebuked those Christian believers who have chosen to commercialize what Christ sacrificially shed his blood to provide. Perhaps from this perspective Kirn should be viewed by Christian believers as a friend. So should our embrace of Kirn’s GQ article be close or closer? Is the true enemy of the kingdom those who are inside the camp of believers or those who attack the kingdom from outside the camp?<br />
	Without question Kirn appears to be ignorant of the transforming power and truth of Christianity but we are told in 2 Corinthians 4:4 “In whom the god of this age hath blinded the minds of them who believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God should shine unto them”. Kirn can not see the power of the glorious gospel because he is blinded by what he sees as the Christian alternaculture. Satan the master deceiver is using a form of godliness to blind the eyes of nonbelievers. Jesus is known as the friend of sinners, Luke 7:34. So as a fellow sinner should Kirn be considered friend?<br />
Perhaps those who purvey “Christian” junk in Christian bookstores, who write and perform contemporary “Christian” imitations of secular music, who write books and make movies capitalizing on the fear of Armageddon, who marginalize the power of the Holy Spirit to produce righteous living by codifying “Christian” living into a list of do’s and don’ts are perhaps our real enemies.<br />
My point is that when we read articles, observe people and their dress and behavior, listen to music, watch television or films it is often difficult to discern friend from enemy, and to discern whom to hold close or to hold closer. It is often such a subtle distinction between “of the world” and “in the world”. Clinging desperately to Christ and His word through the power of the Holy Spirit</p>
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		<title>By: Darin</title>
		<link>http://kennsarah.net/2003/09/14/free-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-670</link>
		<dc:creator>Darin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kennsarah.net/?p=714#comment-670</guid>
		<description>Russ,

Please forgive the late response (I forgot for a couple weeks and am currently providing after-hours coverage at work--which translates into milking Ken&#039;s blog for all it&#039;s worth:).

I do agree with you that scriptures have never been as accessible as they are currently.  No one with an Internet connection (or nearby library) has an excuse for being ignorant as to what they say.  With that being said, I do understand Ken&#039;s point and agree in that there are some &quot;keepers&quot; of the scripture who are in danger of Jesus&#039; curse:

Matthew 18:6
But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 

It is worthwhile then, to proclaim the scriptures without the extra baggage as often as by as many means as possible.

What I /perceive/ that you are getting at is the reality that the root cause of an impotent alterculture is not the marketing and such.  This I wholeheartdly agree with.  The movement suffers from a lack of Christians who have characterized a walk with Jesus Christ  in substance, one that outlasts suffering and harship.  Why this seems to be the case alludes me.  Don&#039;t misunderstand me though, I do think that the emerging church has a lot of strengths and time will prove the extent to which Jesus Christ has been the foundation.  I&#039;m just saying that it has been rare (I have seen some) for me to come across an &quot;elderly&quot; person passionate for the culture and the things of God.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Russ,</p>
<p>Please forgive the late response (I forgot for a couple weeks and am currently providing after-hours coverage at work&#8211;which translates into milking Ken&#8217;s blog for all it&#8217;s worth:).</p>
<p>I do agree with you that scriptures have never been as accessible as they are currently.  No one with an Internet connection (or nearby library) has an excuse for being ignorant as to what they say.  With that being said, I do understand Ken&#8217;s point and agree in that there are some &#8220;keepers&#8221; of the scripture who are in danger of Jesus&#8217; curse:</p>
<p>Matthew 18:6<br />
But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. </p>
<p>It is worthwhile then, to proclaim the scriptures without the extra baggage as often as by as many means as possible.</p>
<p>What I /perceive/ that you are getting at is the reality that the root cause of an impotent alterculture is not the marketing and such.  This I wholeheartdly agree with.  The movement suffers from a lack of Christians who have characterized a walk with Jesus Christ  in substance, one that outlasts suffering and harship.  Why this seems to be the case alludes me.  Don&#8217;t misunderstand me though, I do think that the emerging church has a lot of strengths and time will prove the extent to which Jesus Christ has been the foundation.  I&#8217;m just saying that it has been rare (I have seen some) for me to come across an &#8220;elderly&#8221; person passionate for the culture and the things of God.</p>
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