Michael Barrish: Sundial. If it would work, sure, I would change all the clocks in the world for you so that you wont be late anymore, sure, why not? Sadly, though, I doubt this would help much.
I think a true defining moment in my life was when Pastor Todd cracked a joke about my always being late at our wedding. 
Ken,
I’m interested in your take on just why many of us are often late. I’ve been thinking about this recently and it seems to be something difficult to nail down. Is it simply irresponsibility? Is it a lack of concern for those whom you are going to see?
I suspect people are late when the value of being on time simply isn’t greater than the value of whatever else they are doing.
Every meeting really has to do with two people deciding if they want to spend their time that way. If they do, they show up. If they don’t they don’t. In the case of appointments, you pay one side to be there… if that payment is high enough, they are. You show up if you think the deal is worth it.
In the case of a job interview, the value for you to be there on time is huge, but the interviewer is often late or some such. Because they know you will wait a reasonable amount of time.
This even goes with friends. You will go hang out with them per your plan, but lots of things get in the way. Perhaps you had an old pal come into town. Perhaps you are in the middle of a blog post that you want to get right. Perhaps you are simply tired. You know that they wont drop you as a friend for bailing or being late, so why be concerned?
In other words, late is simply subconcious time management. It’s a way for people to do what they want in the insanely rigid framework we all somehow think is real.
I am working to get into a situation where I just go where I want and people are never sure if I will show up, but ecstatic when I do. And yes, this applies to work too. Dunno if I will get there, but the freedom will be great.
The power of saying No is huge. Thats where all your freedom comes from. And now I am ranting. So I’ll stop..
Ryan’s Boss: Yah, hi. Its your boss. Its about ten o clock, uh, wondering where you are.
(Cut to later. Ryans still asleep. The phone rings again.)
Ryan’s boss: (on machine) Yeah, hi, its your boss again. I just wanted to make sure you knew that we, uh, did start at the, uh, usual time this morning. (Ryan rolls over…) Yeah, it isnt a half day or anything like that. So if you could get here as soon as possible, that would be terrific.
(Cut to later. Ryan finally gets up. The answering machine has seventeen messages. He listens to them.)
Ryan’s Boss: Yeah, hi, its your bo-
(Next message)
Ryan’s Boss: Yeah, its -
(Next message)
Ryan’s: Yeah, hi, its youir boss -
(Next message)
Ryan’s boss: Yeah, its me again. Uh, I was away from my desk for a minute. Just checking in case you called while I was gone.
(The phone rings. Ryan answers it.)
Ryan: Hello?
Ryan’s Girlfriend: Ryan, whats going on?!
Ryan: Huh?
Ryan’s Girlfriend: Its 3:30. Why arent you at work?!
Ryan: Because I didnt feel like it.
Jai,
You kid, but i think “I didn’t feel like it” is pretty much reason enough not to do something. In fact, I suspect that most of our time in school is meant to convince us that it’s not ok to do what we want, and that we should do what others tell us.
I am trying like hell to find a way out of that mindset.
The problem with just ‘doing what you want’ is that nothing would ever really get done. If i did what I wanted all day I would be playing video games, programming on my mud and other game ideas I have, and cycling when its nice out.
I wouldn’t be doing any ‘real’ work. I wouldn’t be reading tech manuals to help me at work, and I wouldn’t be working on various projects that I have outside of work …
there are lots of arguments that ‘real work’ isn’t worth doing and shouldn’t be done. But there are just as many in the other direction. Personally, I am of the belief that if you aren’t doing something to further society (in some way), there really is no point in partaking in it.
Altp.
I don’t think that “nothing getting done” is a bad thing. In fact, most of the time “getting things done” involves hurting someone. That said, in my world I think that lots of things would get done – but it would be things that people want or need, not things that other people tell them they should want or need.
Besides, what is there about our current society that’s so great that you feel the need to “further” it?
Ryan,
The difficulty when reading both your statements, wanting to be able to “do what you feel” and “do what people want or need” is that they often conradict. Many times I don’t /feel/ like serving other people, but I may indeed go through with the deed because I know that beyond the work and anguish there is great pleasure awaiting.
Pez,
When I say the things I say, I realize it looks like I am expousing hedonism. I am not. I believe in moderation and in doing the right thing. But I also believe in the individual freedom, in the real sense (not the libertarian sense, or the current popular “there should be limits to freedom” sense… but in the sense that you are already free and just have to realize that the rules dont actually apply if you don’t let them) I also believe in going with the flow. By that I mean the flow of nature and life. I do believe that things have a way of working themselves out – not that there is some master plan, but that our entire planet is built to sustain, and whenever we don’t interfere, life showers good things upon us. To reach that point takes it’s own type of faith, which is hard work for me but getting easier. It also takes a new perspective on what good things are. I am not there yet, but I’m working on it. And it isn’t easy.
Your argument is that you serve others because you expect a reward in the end. You find that the act of serving someone else adds value to your final reward – enough value that it’s worth doing it. Considering that the final reward is infinite, I can see how that works, and if I shared your belief system, that would be a valid reason for me to serve. In other words, I don’t criticise or question it – you live by your beliefs, and I live by mine. And though our motivations and goals are different, the results likely look very similar.
That said, I don’t believe in the same God you do, and I don’t believe in the system of rewards and punishments that are inherent in most formal belief systems. What I believe seems to fall closest to Taoism, but I have not spent enough time researching those texts to claim that I am Taoist. But every Taoist text I have read echos beliefs I have had for a long time, and that’s a first for me. What I do know is that I have no guarantees of reward in the end. I do not believe there is a conciousness watching over me. I believe that my life is where I should focus myself – not because it is my duty or to earn a final reward or even to glorify life – but because it is the only thing I can ever truly call mine. The only day that ever truly exists is today. Everything else is either notes from a previous class, or a daydream. I choose to think about the present. Not to the detriment of a cohesive coherent life – but to the benefit of living that life now instead of tommorrow. Because I don’t believe in a second life after this one, I find that I need to live my life as freely and fully as possible. And by that I do not mean what our consumer culture means by it. i.e. I don’t mean sex drugs and rock and roll. Well, ok, maybe a little bit of the rock and roll.
Some people would argue that if I don’t believe in an afterlife or a savior, that there is no reason for me to live a good life – what’s the point, right? In fact, I would’ve argued that at one time. What i’ve come to realize is that life is it’s own reward – and it gives much more than it takes… if you let it. No one’s coming to save me, but I think i’ve figured out how to save myself.
When I serve other people, I want it to be not because it’s my job or because I expect some great reward in the end. I do it because I enjoy doing it. I feel it makes me a better person, it adds value to my life /immediately/ – not at some later date, and I honestly believe that I benefit more than the person or persons whom I help. When I go to work, I want it to be because I believe it’s the best way to spend the precious minutes of my life – not because they pay me or I am worried about how I will eat.
Fear of death is the basis of all slavery. The only thing standing between a person and their total freedom is the fear of the consequences of the word No.
I am trying to work up the nerve to look at the entire world and say “Non Servium”. I will not serve. To issue my own declaration of independance and to start living. I don’t mean violence or anything – I am against that sort of thing. I simply mean through my choices. Through my own personal actions and decisions. Be free by refusing to participate in my own enslavement. The odds are unfortunately against me.. but unlike most people who live their lives feeling trapped in a cage with no idea how to escape, I feel like I’ve finally found the bars. And as far as I’m concerned, thats a pretty good start.
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I feel it makes me a better person, it adds value to my life /immediately/ – not at some later date, and I honestly believe that I benefit more than the person or persons whom I help.
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I disagree, at least from a personal stand point. Many things that I do, I do because I know it will provide something for me in the future. I can point at several examples, things I don’t particular enjoy doing now, but will have great rewards in the future.
By rewards, i don’t nessasarily mean money or fame. All of the projects I undertake, whether for work or on my own time, I do because I will learn something from them. If I don’t have to research something, my time will be wasted and I will give it to someone else to work on (Yes, I pass my projects at work to other people from time to time, in order to tackel a project that is more challenging or interesting).
For me, the freedom of choice is there, but, i choose to do the man’s bidding to further myself. The immediate benefits are not apparent, in fact right now i have no immediate benefits except for being able to pay my car loan and morgage … Which, as you pointed out, really isn’t all that important in the grander scheme of things.
Other than that, I would agree with much of what you say above. Go with the flaw, and it WILL all work out. Life is nifty like that, no matter what you do the sun will will rise in the east the next morning … whether you see it or not, is a different thing.
Altp.
Pez, in regards to your question, I think Ryan sums it up very nicely:
“I suspect people are late when the value of being on time simply isnt greater than the value of whatever else they are doing.”
I’ve experienced this at both a conscious (“I’m not going to leave until I get this blog done and published!”) and unconscious (I’m not looking forward to this meeting, so I’m going to drag my feet in getting there, not realizing why I’m doing it) level. And, I suspect that this is a very natural way that we manage time, giving us opportunity to make flexible value judgements. For example, if I’m spending time with a good friend I haven’t seen in a while and that makes me late for class, sometimes building relationships with people wins out over 15 minutes of note-taking.
But, as with pretty much everything we experience in life, this way of thinking is as much open to exploitation by selfishness as anything else. There have been countless times where I’ve made an appointment to be in bed at a certain hour, but got totally derailed by the latest conversation about web technology or some new, cool software–in fact, I have a pending blog about some new, cool software that /totally/ kept me up way too late last night. That’s just self-indulgent: it doesn’t respect my wife’s desire to sleep without a computer monitor glowing in the room, or my employer’s desire to see me at work on time, etc., etc.
Admittedly, though, there are actually legitimate circumstantial reasons for being late (subway was delayed, dog had to pee, had to work late) which muddy the waters. For example, if traffic on Route 80 makes you late to getting to work, you’re tempted to feel entirely justified in being late even though you /really/ know that you were up ’til midnight last night. And, if you had gotten to bed on time, you would have been able to get up sooner and not be /as/ late as you really were.
This kind of rules-based obsession would drive anyone nuts, which is why, if you’re really concerned about it (as I have been from time to time), this is an area where we need to ask for grace. Most of the time, if you’re being honest, you know whether or not you were being selfish. For this we ask God–and the other party–for forgiveness.
Well, if farmers don’t feel like milking the cows, and Ryan’s theory is legitamate, we can all forget about ever drinking milk again… or every usinga computer or eating a good meal or…
For the good of others and the good of themselves people do things they don’t want to do. Try not going to work because you don’t feel like it. You’ll be fired, and then have no money and then… well, I don’t think that /I/ need to explain that….
But, I’m almost always late. Ussually because I just want to sit down and rest and I happen to have to be somewhere…
Everyone who seems to have a complaint against my theory either complains because they depend on someone else giving them something (i.e. Jai, if you wanted milk that bad, you would go raise cows) or complains but then argues in my favor (i.e. Altp who only does projects at work that he personally will learn from, which sounds exactly like what I am talking about)
People don’t do things they don’t want to do for the good of themselves. There is not a single thing that /must/ be done for your own self good that you don’t want to do. If the only reason you go to work is because you are scared of being fired, you may as well be dead already. Being Fired != No Money. It just means change. People are scared of that.
If I ever honestly get to the point where I truly don’t feel like going to work, I will not go. Or at the very least, I will go and spend my time doing other things until they fire me. That said, I am lucky enough that by the end of the weekend I am usually /anxious/ to get back to work – cause it’s fun.
My point is that people should just stop doing things. That would be stupid. My point is that people should stop doing things that kill them. Such as letting fear stop them from living – i.e. working for low wages in a cube all day out of fear, or not speaking out against something horrible for fear of social repercussions, or whatever.
People are free to do what they like. Fear of consequences is what strips us of that freedom. What I am realizing, and expousing, is that living in fear is pretty much worse than any consequences you could encounter by being free. It’s a state worse than death. It’s unlife.
Hey, what’s going on here… I see 12 comments listed on the main page, but only 11 comments on the archive page… weird… I bet as soon as I submit this it’ll fix it and ruin the fact that it was weird… I just wanna read Ryan’s whole comment!
ATTENTION KEN: Your Commenting is BROKEN again.
The front page rebuilds, but the actual article pages do not. Big no no. Please Fix.